Topic started by rjay (@ brkfw0005.navistar.com) on Fri Mar 10 16:05:50 .
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- From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.146)
on: Tue Jun 13 13:10:21 EDT 2000
Good posting by Saranath.
If I had not read the other thread titled " 100 best Tamil books...." I may not have sensed the subtle sarcasm in Ettappan's posting.
Or, am I reading too much into it?
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-161.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Mon Jun 19 23:15:05 EDT 2000
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From: saranath (@ soc162.soc.lsa.umich.edu) on: Tue Jun 13 11:13:14 EDT 2000
what Ettappan says is quite true in one way. For many in Tn, particularly in the Tamil academy, language is primordial, a test of loyalty, a badge of honor, a way to construct self and more.
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³Â¡ º¡Ã¿¡¾ý:
¬õ «¨Å¦ÂøÄ¡õ ¯ñ¨Á¾¡õ.
¾Á¢ú¦Á¡Æ¢ô ÀüÚ ´Õ ¾Á¢ÆÉ¢ý ºÓ¾¡Â Å¢ÍÅ¡ºò¾¢üÌ «Çק¸¡ø¾¡ý.
¾Á¢úô ÀñÀ¡Î¾¡ý ¯Ä¸¢ý Ó¾ø ¯ñ¨ÁÔõ ¸¨¼º¢ ¯ñ¨ÁÔõ ¬Ìõ.
¿£Å¢÷ ¨¾ì ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºö§¾ ¦¸¡ñÎ Õõ. ¿¡í¸û »¡ÉºõÀó¾ý, Çí§¸¡, ÌÁÃÌÕÀÃý,²ý ¯ÁÚô ÒÄÅ÷ ±ýÚ ¸½ì¸¢Ä¼í¸¡¾ ¦ÀâÂÅ÷¸û ¸¡ðÊ ÅƢ¢ø ¿¼ì¸¢§È¡õ. ¡÷ ¦Åø¸¢È¡÷¸¦ÇýÚ À¡÷ì¸Ä¡õ.
¯í¸û §¸¡ðÀ¡Î¸û ¦Åû¨Çì ¸¡Ã¨½ý «¨¼¨Áò ¾Éò¾¢ý ¦ÅÇ¢ôÀ¡Î. ¯í¸ÙìÌì §¸¡ðÀ¡Î ±ýÚ ´ýÚõ ¸¢¨¼Â¡Ð. ´ýÚ ¦ÅÚôÒì ¸ÄóÐ ±¾¢÷ôÒ «øÄÐ ¾¡ú× ÁÉôÀ¡ý¨Á ¸Äó¾ À¢ýÀüÈø
Ãñ¨¼ò ¾Å¢Ã ²Ðõ ø¨Ä ¯í¸û ¸Õò¾¢ø. ¬É¡Éô Àð¼ «¦Áâ측ާħ ¦À¡ÚôÒ¨¼¨Á ±ýÚ ô§À¡Ð §Àºò ¦¾¡¼í¸¢Å¢ð¼¡÷¸û; «ó¾î ºÓ¾¡Âô ¦À¡ÚôÒ ±ýÀо¡ý ¾Á¢Æ¢Ä츢Âò¾¢ý «ÊôÀ¨¼; «Ð¾¡ñ ÒШÁìÌ ÅÆ¢¸¡ðÊ. ¦À¡ÚôÀ¢ÖÕóо¡ý Ññ½¢Â ¯½÷׸û À¢ÈìÌõ; Ññ½¢Â ¯½÷ŢĢÕóо¡ý ¸¡Äò¾¡ø «Æ¢Â¡¾ ¬úó¾ Ä츢Âõ À¢ÈìÌõ.
¾Á¢ú Ä츢Âò¾¢ý «ÊôÀ¨¼ Á¢¨ºì§¸¡ðÀ¡Î (metaprinciple):
²§ÆØ ¾¨ÄÓ¨ÈìÌõ ÌÎõÀí¸û ¯ÕôÀ¼ ±ý ±ØòРŨ¸ ¦ºöÔÁ¡?
«¾ü¸¡É «ÊôÀ¨¼ ´Øì¸í¸¨Çì ¦¸Î측ÁÄ¡ÅÐ ÕìÌÁ¡?
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It is in short an obsession, very much like the obsession about Karpu among some non-academic Tamil elite in some other threads here.
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¸üÒ:
¨¾ì ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöÔõ ¾Á¢ú§ÀÍ¿÷ ¾õ ÁÉò¨¾ò ¦¾¡ðÎì §¸ð¸§ÅñÊ ´§Ã §¸ûÅ¢:
¾ý¨Éô À¡÷òÐ µ÷ «ôÀÛìÌô À¢Èó¾ÅÉ¡ ±ýÚ ±ÅÛõ §¸ð¼¡ø ¾ÁìÌì §¸¡Àõ ÅÕÁ¡ šá¾¡? ±ýÀ§¾.
í§¸ «¨¾Ôõ ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöÐ ¬Â¢Ãõ ±ØÐí¸û; ¬É¡ø ¯õÓ¨¼Â ÁÉó¾¡ý ¯ñ¨Á¨Â «È¢Ôõ.
ÁÉÁȢ «ó¾ì §¸ûÅ¢ ÅÕò¾ò¨¾ ¯ñ¼¡ì̸¢È ¦¾ýÈ¡ø ¸ü¨Àì ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöŨ¾ Å¢ðÎ «¾ý ¯ñ¨Á¨Âô ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇ ÓÂÖí¸û.
«Ð¾¡ý «ÅÃÅ÷ ÌÎõÀí¸û ¯ÕôÀ¼ ÅÆ¢.
It is also a regulatory club in the hands of people who do not want to live in the 21st century, but wish to live with bullock carts, wooden plough, high infant mortality and small pox. I say thanks for the invitation, I am too happy here in the middle of my own miserable ecological disaster of a world with all its chemical pollution.
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¸üÒ:
¨¾ì ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöÔõ ¾Á¢ú§ÀÍ¿÷ ¾õ ÁÉò¨¾ò ¦¾¡ðÎì §¸ð¸§ÅñÊ ´§Ã §¸ûÅ¢:
¾ý¨Éô À¡÷òÐ µ÷ «ôÀÛìÌô À¢Èó¾ÅÉ¡ ±ýÚ ±ÅÛõ §¸ð¼¡ø ¾ÁìÌì §¸¡Àõ ÅÕÁ¡ šá¾¡? ±ýÀ§¾.
í§¸ «¨¾Ôõ ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöÐ ¬Â¢Ãõ ±ØÐí¸û; ¬É¡ø ¯õÓ¨¼Â ÁÉó¾¡ý ¯ñ¨Á¨Â «È¢Ôõ.
ÁÉÁȢ «ó¾ì §¸ûÅ¢ ÅÕò¾ò¨¾ ¯ñ¼¡ì̸¢È ¦¾ýÈ¡ø ¸ü¨Àì ¸¢ñ¼ø ¦ºöŨ¾ Å¢ðÎ «¾ý ¯ñ¨Á¨Âô ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇ ÓÂÖí¸û.
«Ð¾¡ý «ÅÃÅ÷ ÌÎõÀí¸û ¯ÕôÀ¼ ÅÆ¢.
¬, ³ýÛìÌõ ¿¢äð¼ÛìÌõ "The immortal thirukkural" ±Ø¾¢î º¡¸¢ò¾¢Â «¸¡¾Á¢ Å¢ÕÐ ¦ÀüÈ Å£.º£. ÌÆ󨾺¡Á¢ §À¡ýÈ ¦À¡È¢Â¢Âø ÅøÖ¿÷ìÌõ ¦¾Ã¢Â¡¾ ¦¾¡Æ¢ÛðÀõ ó¾ «È¢Å¢Âø ÅøÖ¿÷ìÌò ¦¾Ã¢óÐÅ¢ð¼Ð... ³.³.Ê. ¾¢øĢ¢ø ±Ç¢§Âý ¦ÀüÈ ÇÅø, ÓÐÅø Àð¼í¸¦ÇøÄ¡õ ±Á즸ý¨É¡ ¦º¡øÄ¢ì ¦¸¡Îò¾É? §ºî§º! ÀÊôÒ Å£½¡¸¢Å¢ð¼Ð..
¿¡Óõ ÀÄ Äðºõ ¬ñθû À¨ÆÂÅ÷¸û¾¡§Á? ²ý ó¾ô Àº¢,
ÌÇ¢÷, ¦ÅôÀõ ±øÄ¡õ? ²ý ¸¡Áõ, §¸¡Àõ, ýÀõ ±ýÛõ ¯½÷׸Ùõ? «¨Å ¦ÂøÄ¡õ À¨Æ¨ž¡§Á? «ÏìÌñθÙõ ²×¸¨½¸Ùõ ¾¡õ Ò¾¢ÂÉ...¦¾¡¼ì¸ò¾¢üÌ ¿¡õ ÌÆ󨾸û ¦º¡ó¾Á¡¸î ºõÀ¡¾¢ìÌõ ÅÂÐ Åó¾×¼ý ¦Àü§È¡¨Ãì ¦¸¡ýÚŢΧšõ...À¨ÆÂÐ ±¾üÌò §¾¨Å?
º¡Ã¿¡¾§Ã: ÁÉ¢¾ ¯½÷׸û Á¡È§Å¢ø¨Ä...«Åý À¨¼ò¾ ¦À¡Õû¸û¾¡õ Á¡È¢ì¦¸¡ñÎûÇÉ. ¦¾¡Æ¢ÛðÀò¾¢üÌõ ÀñÀ¡ðÎìÌõ ¯ûÇ §ÅÚÀ¡Î𨼠«È¢Åо¡ý ¸øÅ¢. ÁüȦ¾øÄ¡õ ¦ÅÚõ ÀÊôÒ...§º¡üÚô ÀÊôÒ «øÄÐ §ÅÊ쨸ô ÀÊôÒò¾¡ý.
Anonymous quote found at the books-a-million website in 1999:
"The really cultured person reads the newest books in science and the oldest in literature".
- From: Vanchinathan (@ 203.199.192.162)
on: Tue Jun 20 05:04:58 EDT 2000
Saranath:
Comparing the squirrel piece with a new parent's enthusiasm to pass on the knowledge to the kid definitely opens the key to undestanding.
Your thought processes triggered by the poem about the shepherd boy waiting at the railway crossing -- as Gokul says --- is captiviting.
Coming to the image of frog on the dead body.
You imagine the destruction in Orissa caused by the cyclone.
It could have been a woman in Bihar brutally murdered in the riots.
There is no understanding expected of this. Making the reader think (or recall some past events -- personal or read from newspaper accounts) seem to be the objective of this
" voyager and a messenger of unexpected messages "
Lack of understanding of what the poet's objective is (in giving locally understandable but globally unclear poem) is the cause of birth of this thread, I suppose.
The poet has seen or experienced something, and communicates that in an oblique way. Obviously it can reach only those who've experienced it.
If I am a person who has lived in city and never travelled by train in rural areas (or I travlled by A/c coach with windows shut or flew) then I'd miss out the poet's import in the image of the shepherd by the railway gate with or without an agenda.
I start doubting then if this whole thing is some kind of game -- treasure hunt or vidukathai. The poet seems to operate on the principle "If you've had the same experience as I had, just try hard you'd get what I mean."
(of course the reader who unravels the meaning is delighted or touched)
Saranath, please continue your good work and enighten me on this aspect (whether this type of communication is a game)
- From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ sji-ca-cache2.icg.net)
on: Wed Jun 21 01:01:46 EDT 2000
Since this thread continues some of the discussions started in the "Marabum puthumamum" thread, I have responded to in that thread at the URL: http://www.forumhub.com/tlit/555.11.30.51.html
- From: rajagopal (@ 203.199.220.14)
on: Mon Jul 24 20:49:46 EDT 2000
vanchi,
i don't agree with yr point ("The poet has seen or experienced something, and communicates that in an oblique way. Obviously it can reach only those who've experienced it.").This statement is outdated. Without realising what the experience is,we have been talking about this for long.
There is always a gap between experience and conceptualisation. To bridge this is not an easier task. An event is an event until we feel it and above that only it's experience.
Taking yr view point for argument, Bharti is the best exmaple. At the age of 8 itself, he started writing best poems. Where comes the experience. Experience does not fit into poet's caliber. Yr argument suit for normal life not for the mystic talents.
Vanapadi poems are only speaking about experience, advice, nationalism, morals blaaaa blaa blaa. Modern poetry had come a long way. As poet itself doesn't need any prior experience, the reader also doesn't need but yu should have a sence to understand. The poetry is mystical language. Yu can't understand it by mathamatical formulas. To understand poetry yu need some eccentricity.
Regarding Devathachchan's poems(published in kalachuvadu) are one of the best poems in tamil modern poetry. As my english is so poor i can't explain the meaning of this poems else i would misinterpret this poems or people would misunderstood. Give me some time i will write it in tamil & post it.
- From: Vanchinathan (@ 202.56.193.185)
on: Thu Jul 27 12:32:09 EDT 2000
ყ¸¡À¡ø, ¯í¸û Å¢Çì¸ò¨¾ ¬ÅÖ¼ý ±¾¢÷ §¿¡ì̸¢§Èý
- From: ww (@ samrat.spcnl.co.in)
on: Mon Aug 30 06:24:57 EDT 2004
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