raga begada

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raga begada raga begada

Topic started by suhas (@ 203.197.54.151) on Tue May 9 11:46:30 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There is so much to discuss espacially regarding the M swara so please post your views n this wonderful Raga here.

Responses:

From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38773.sympatico.ca) on: Tue May 9 12:05:47 EDT 2000

Suhas:
I had posted information on the Begada Ma on one of the other threads-I don't remember which. Perhaps Nadopasaka or IR might.
From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp27.buffnet.net) on: Tue May 9 12:34:07 EDT 2000

The raga Kannada has a strong resemblance to some Begada phrases. Also Purvi Kalyani uses the 'pa dha pa ' combination ( actually quite a few ragas manipulate this )
From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125) on: Wed May 10 00:44:33 EDT 2000

M in begada appears in 2 different hues in the
aro and avarohanam.
in the arohanan, the M is strong and needs hardly
any support from the antara gaandhaaram.
however, in the avarohanam, the Ma is oscillated
from the panchamam.
madhayamam is, i think, not a nyaasa swaram in
begada.
begada always has a shourya rasam about it.
patnam subramaniam iyer was considered an exponent
of this raaga - one of his compositions in this ragaa
being "abhimaanammennaadu galgumu...".
my favorite in this raaga is "shankari neeve"
and "thyaagarajaya namasthe".
i have heard a reputed musician once opine that
"vallabha nayakasya" is a very doubtable composition
in this raaga.
From: S (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com) on: Wed May 10 02:34:19 EDT 2000

Ravi and Nado, good to see that u got the discussion going. Ravi, u write "in the arohanan, the M is strong and needs hardly any support from the antara gaandhaaram.
however, in the avarohanam, the Ma is oscillated from the panchamam." Well, IMO it is difficult to generalize ... In the ArO, the m is sometimes sounded as an oscillating , say in sgrgmpdp... Similarly, taking its occurence in the descent, tyAgarAja's nAdOpAsana has the long kArvai on madhayamam as its starting note, followed by a gandharam ( of course, some use a kampita for the starting ma ). Musicologically, the sruti of the madhyamam was supposed to be between suddha and prati ma; but now, usually, the or gamakas are used as in some other ragas. A great MD kriti in this raga is matashiva - also, Tyagaraja's lOkAvanachatura... Nado, actually it is quite interesting that just considering the phrase 'gmdp' common to say sankarabharanam, kannada and begada ( g3, m1, d2 ), one can articulate it with proper emphasis and gamaka so that the respective raga identity becomes evident. Also, I think the combination u intended was 'pdps' used by begada, purvikalyani, nayaki etc.
From: S (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com) on: Wed May 10 02:37:45 EDT 2000

Oops, some clusters I posted got filtered out ! I am trying to post those sentences again ....
..In the ArO, the m is sometimes sounded as an oscillating "g p g .. ", say in sgrgmpdp...
...of course, some use a kampita "g m g m ..." for the starting ma
From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp32.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 10 08:53:49 EDT 2000

You are right S. I goofed on the typing. What are the visesha prayogas of Begada ? I think I heard 'sa ma' in MSS with EkadantamUpasmahe. What are the prohibited usages ( all Sbharanam, I suppose )
From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125) on: Wed May 10 09:19:35 EDT 2000

the "pa da pa" phrase is also used in different
combinations in begada.
1. "ma pa da pa sa", with stress on ma
2. "SAAA ni pa da pa" as a landing phrase while
being nyaasa at the thara shadjam
also, the begada varnam has a "p d n s" phrase
which is quite aparoopam for begada.
any comments?
From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp32.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 10 09:25:09 EDT 2000

This is a generic question , Why are there typically only one or two varnams in most ragas ?

How old is InthaChala ? Is it likely the 'p d n s' is a throwback to earlier Begada, and the raga swarupam is slowly changing ? Does SriMataShiva use or encourage the 'p d n s' phrase ? I've never heard it or Lokavana ( MDR had a pallavi using this ).
From: S (@ wwwgate32.motorola.com) on: Wed May 10 10:14:44 EDT 2000

Ravi,

Begada varnam has the following prayogas which may seem unacceptable in today's context. ( apostrophe means upper octave notes )

1. s' n d r s' ( pallavi )
2. ----do------- ( anupallavi )
3. s', n d n s' r' ( anupallavi )

Similarly, the bilahari adi tala varnam charanam has n , , , s' n d n p. The n-s is not used by most of us today, since it violates the grammar of bilahari ( d-n followed by a lower note is allowed, obviously ). Some feel that very popular phrases like s'nrs's'nnd in bilahari need not be changed to s'drs's'nnd ( some other egs can be gvn eg g'r'g's'r'ns'dnp in paridanamichite ), while others feel that such a change would be in conformance with the ArO-ava of bilahari. Nado, if I remember right, intachala is a composition of veenai kuppayyar, most pbly a disciple of Tyagaraja. Well, some ragas have multiple varnams, but only the most popular are taught. Worse still, people tend to present only adi tala varnams, and ignore even celebrated ata tala varnams. I shall post more on varnams some time subsequently. The version of srimatashiva I learnt does not use pdns. Try and hear Alathurs' rendition. MDR has also sung the whole lokavanachatura kriti in another rcdg, in addn to the begada pallavi u mention. SSI has also rendered lokavanachatura.
From: S (@ wwwgate32.motorola.com) on: Wed May 10 10:41:44 EDT 2000

Nado, u mention about "throwback to earlier Begada, and the raga swarupam is slowly changing". One comment I have heard from old timers is that today's begada is a smoothened out version of earlier begada. The version they present has a lot of kakali nishadam prayogas, while today the kakali nishadam less often than the kaishiki ni ( of course kakali ni is also used in s'ndp kind of phrases ). Also, the sndrs, which I have mentioned is frowned upon by some, while others allow it - time does not allow me to elaborate on this. Also, while on this, certain ragas r more ArO-ava based, while others are prayogam based ( well, relatively speaking ). Ahiri is an eg of the latter - in such ragas, u find many versions of ArO-ava, usually derived from popular prayogas. Some people guess that some prayogas in compositions later became disallowed, because of stricter codification of ArO-ava rules. Some musicians have a version of kamalaambaasamrakshatu ( Anandabhairavi ) that sounds more archaic than other versions. They joke - surely u youngsters will call it reetigowla without the ndm usage...
From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp32.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 10 10:44:03 EDT 2000

S, The Bilahari reference is interesting.

Much is made, with good basis, for the Begada ma, but begada also has a unique tinge from its bhashaanga ni, just like Bilahari,Kamboji and maybe KedaraGoula. In the standard phrase ( = avarohana ) s n n d p m m g r s, do both nishaadams occur, necessitating two slightly different 'ma's for symmetry ?
From: S (@ wwwgate32.motorola.com) on: Wed May 10 10:58:59 EDT 2000

Nado, guess u posted before I wrote on the bhAshAnga ni of begada. U r right on bilahari and kambhoji - but kedaragowla is non-bhashanga [ aside : use both ni-s with the same scale; the upper ni in the ArO and lower in the ava - change the style of gamaka-s and ... u have desh ! ]. The phrase u have indicated in begada with 'nn' and 'mm' would not involve both nishadams - but the first n would be sounded close to the chatusruti dhaivatam's posn, and the second ni at the kaishiki - kakali ni for nn can be used, but is rarer. ( BTW many use sn,dpm,grs as avarohanam - basically the same as ur phrase, with nn and mm coalescing into lengthened swaras )
From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp12.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 10 11:26:59 EDT 2000

I think I heard MSanth, with the DayaNidhe of Syamasastri ( Is this also a varnam ) doing the s n n d p m m g r s. Not sure if he split it so they were different (the nis and maas). There is some gamaka that relies on repeating the swara ( maybe pratyhaata) Perhaps this was how/why MSanth was breaking down the elongated sounds. ( unless mandated by syamasastri )

g r g m and p d p s are some symmetries in arohana. n n d p and m m g r could be in ava.

Maybe Jayamanohari or Janaranjani has also some more than passing connection to Begada. There is a phrase g r g m d nee bhakti bhagyasudha by KVN.
From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp12.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 10 11:55:05 EDT 2000

I am looking for my TyagarajaayaNamaste rendition by Brinda-Mukta. I am certain I heard some unusual swara combinations. Maybe others have this recording.
From: SUHAS (@ 203.197.56.214) on: Wed May 10 12:06:52 EDT 2000

I HAVE BEEN INFORMED BY MAIL MY MR ESWARAN THAT THERE IS A CD EXCLUSIVELY DEVOTED TO BEGADA IN WHICH SRI SEMMAGUDI SRINIVAS IYER DEMONSTRATES NO LESS THAN FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF SINGING THE SWARA M.DOES ANY BODY OUT THERE HAVE THIS CD.?

ALSO ARE PHRASES DNS ALLOWED
I MEAN THE BEGADA VARNAM HAS TOO MANY D N S

SOMEBODY WROTE THAT VALLABHA NAYAKASYA IS VERY UNBEGADALIKE.PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THIS.

BYE

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