Topic started by Venky Narayanan on Wed Nov 3 01:09:07 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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We know that there are lots of words in Tamil which were borrowed from Sanskrit. Are there words in Sanskrit with roots from Dravidian Languages (in other words, Tamil) ? If so, we can discuss about them and their usages in ancial Tamil literature... References: OTL thamizh Lexicon , Sanskrit Lexicon. |
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Ramanan S K (@ 63.72.31.162)
on: Fri Aug 18 17:33:43 EDT 2000
Kartik,
Language is in the realm of expression; God realization is in the realm of experience..I don't think I mixed them in my answers here. You don't have to be an expert in Sanskrit/Tamil to secure a place in heaven! Here we are just trying to discuss a literary question raised by Venky Narayanan..
Munna has raised a very good question about week days..I feel our ancestors used 15 days waxing and 15 days waning of the moon to determine a month.. so they did not have names for the week days..THese names have crept into our system only in the mideaval times I think..I would appreciate if somebody throws light on this..
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-161.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Fri Aug 18 23:59:08 EDT 2000
Ramanan S K :
This is again an attempt to answer Munna's question: are there any reference to "murugan" in sanskrit literature? Yes. but I think, not by this name. Valmiki Ramayanam devotes a full chapter to Kumaara's birth in Baala Kaandam! (Canto's name: Kumaarothpaththi:). Here the poet mentions other epithets of Muruga namely: skanda, kaarthikeya(Yes!), Devasenaaganapathi..THere is a mention of Sharavana too..Vishvaamithra recollects this legend to young Raama and Lakshmana! This Canto actually formed the theme for Kaalidasa's Kumaarasambhava..
---
Å¡øÁ¢¸¢ áÁ¡Â½ò¾¢ø À¡Ä¸¡ñ¼Óõ ¯ò¾Ã¸¡ñ¼Óõ À¢ü§º÷쨸¸û ±ýÀÐ «È¢»÷¸û ´ôÒ즸¡ñ¼Ð.
[Hart, "Poems of Ancien Tamil" : "the earlier middle books of Valmiki Ramayana.."]
«ÅüÈ¢ý ¸Å¢ò¾Ãõ ¿Îì ¸¡ñ¼í¸¨ÇÅ¢¼ì ̨ÈÅ¡¸ ÕôÀÐ×õ ¸ÅÉ¢ì¸ô ÀðÎûÇÐ.
¸¢Æ¨Áô ¦ÀÂ÷¸û:
Ò¾ý, ºÉ¢ Ãñ¨¼ò ¾Å¢Ã ÁüȨŠ¦ºó¾Á¢§Æ.
ÃÁ½ý:
¬Ã¢Âô À¨¼¦ÂÎôÒô ÀüÈ¢Ôõ º¢óÐî ºÁ¦ÅÇ¢ ¿¡¸Ã¢¸õ ôüÈ£Ôõ Ţġšâ¡¸ ±ÎòÐÅ¢ðÊÕ츢ȣ÷¸û. Ò¾¢Â ¬û §À¡Äò §¾¡ýÚ¸¢È£÷.
ÅÃÄ¡üÚò ¾Çò¾¢ü ¦ºýÚ ÓðÊ즸¡ûÇ×õ. «í§¸ ¿¢¨È §À÷ Õ츢ȡ÷¸û ¯ÁìÌ :-))
- From: Ramanan (@ 63.72.31.162)
on: Mon Aug 21 10:56:05 EDT 2000
Chandra,
Could you please tell me what font to download to view your comments? Thanks in advance
- From: Vijay Tharma (@ 207.231.142.94)
on: Mon Aug 21 14:44:27 EDT 2000
Ramanan, any TSC font would do, such as InaimathiTSC.
www.murasu.com
get anjal software to read and write, all the needed fonts are there.
- From: Ramanan (@ 63.72.31.162)
on: Mon Aug 21 16:08:26 EDT 2000
Vijay,
Mikka Nandri..
Chandra,
This theory is supported by some 'Indologists'..THere are as many scholars who feel that these two Kaandas could have been written by the disciples of Vaalmiki..because the sage himself is a character in these two Kaandas. But all the earliest works based on Raamayana have alluded to these two Kaandas (as Vaalmiki's work, if not, they would not have taken from this portion)..including Kalidasa.. wesetern Indologists always discard vital 'internal evidence' when they come to a conclusion about authorship/dates of ancient Indian works..One of them has even put Origin of Tamil as around 5 AD! What kind of analysis can you expect from them!
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-161.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Mon Aug 21 19:32:02 EDT 2000
ÃÁ½ý:
"But all the earliest works based on Raamayana have alluded to these two Kaandas (as Vaalmiki's work, if not, they would not have taken from this portion)..including Kalidasa"
«¾É¡ø ±ýÉ? ¸¡Ç¢¾¡ºý ¸¡Äò¾¢üÌõ Å¡øÁ¢¸¢Â¢ý ¸¡Äò¾¢üÌõ ¨¼Â¢ø «¨Å §º÷ì¸ôÀðÊÕì¸ ÓÊ¡¾¡?
¾¢ø Å¡¾¢ÎžüÌ §¿ÃÊ ¯ñ¨Á¸¨Çì ¸¡ð¼¡Áø ¯¼§É §Á¨Ä ó¾¢ÂÅ¢ÂÄ¡¨Ã ¯ñ§½¡ì¸õ ¯¨¼ÂÅ÷ ±ýÚ ÌüÈõº¡üÚŨ¾ Å¢ÎôÀÐ «Æ¸ýÚ. ó¾¢Â¡Å¢ø Õó¾Å÷¸û §¾Å¡Ãõ Ó¾ø ¨¸Â¢ü ¸¢ðÊ áø¸¨Ç §ÅÅ¢òÐò ¾Á¢¨Æ§Â ´Æ¢ì¸ô À¡÷ò¾Å÷¸û Õì¸ §Á¨ÄÂ÷ ¾Á¢¨Æì ¸¡ì¸§Å Ó¨Éó¾É÷.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-161.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Mon Aug 21 19:33:33 EDT 2000
§Á§Ä Å¢ÎôÀÐ ±ýÛï ¦º¡ø¨Ä Å¢ÎòÐô ÀÊì¸×õ.
ÂüÚõ§À¡Ð «¨Áô¨À Á¡üȢ¾ý Å¢¨Ç×.
- From: Krishnadevarayan (@ gwa4.fe.bosch.de)
on: Mon Aug 21 23:46:50 EDT 2000
I feel there were 2 different cultures. Thirumal in my opinion was a tamil God who was fitted with Hari or Narayana of 'Aryan' God. Similarly Muruga who is a Tamil God was identified as Devasenapathi of 'Aryan' God.
We say Ram and Rahim are same today; may be after a few thousand years people will coin a different name for these 2 Gods and will say they are/were equal.
If tamils (including me) are so confidant of their civilisation being much older which had Kurinji, Mullai, Marudam and their corresponding Gods then that could in no have had 'Aryan' name. A similarity in roles were seen between Aryan Gods and Tamil Gods and they were fitted.
The Muruga worship even within South India has different forms, in Karnataka they worship Subramanya in the form of Naga. North Indians worship Subramanya similar to the way we worship Saktha [Ayyappan]. For them Subramanya is a bachelor God. Their yound girls are not allowed to go to Subramanya temple etc;.
Given these facts, I am convinced on the fact that Muruga is Muruga period. Others are trying to fit their Skanda, Devasenapathy and Subramanya to our Muruga.
Similarly the Thirumal who is the greatest of Tamil Gods is the one who is at Thirumalai. Venkateswara and Hari, and Narayana are later day setting/ fittings.
- From: Vijay Tharma (@ )
on: Thu Dec 14 18:05:50
Chandra, I'm continuing here for clarification on the word Chayangkaalam. You mentioned its a Tamil word, but isnt kaalam a sanskrit word??
Below are some words from Sanskrit dictionary.
kaala = Time
kaalaM = time
kaalaH = Master Time
kaalabaahyam.h = (adj) outdated, obsolete
kaale = time
kaalena = in the course of time
kaaleshhu = times
- From: Vijay Tharma (@ )
on: Thu Dec 14 18:06:40
Chandra, I'm continuing here for clarification on the word Chayangkaalam. You mentioned its a Tamil word, but isnt kaalam a sanskrit word??
Below are some words from Sanskrit dictionary.
kaala = Time
kaalaM = time
kaalaH = Master Time
kaalabaahyam.h = (adj) outdated, obsolete
kaale = time
kaalena = in the course of time
kaaleshhu = times
BTW, wasnt there a thread for sanskrit words to Tamil thread??
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-123-208.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sat Dec 16 19:01:52 EST 2000
Å¢ºö:
«ùÅ¡Ú ¸¡Äõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÄ¢ý ÀÄÅÊÅí¸û ż¦Á¡Æ¢Â¸Ã¡¾¢Â¢ø À¢øž¡ø «Ð ż¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÂýÚ ¦º¡øÄÓÊ¡Ð.
±-Î: ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ô§À¡Ð ¸¡Ä¢ ¦ÂýÛõ ¦º¡ø ¦ÅÚ¨Á ±ýÛõ ¦º¡ø¨Äô §ÀÃÇÅ¢ø ¾ûǢŢð¼Ð§À¡ø §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ.
¿¡õ ¸¡Ä¢, ¸¡Ä¢¦ºö ±ýÚ ÅÆí̸¢§È¡õ.
¸¼ýÅ¡í¸¢ÂÀ¢ý ±ôÀʧÅñÎÁ¡É¡Öõ ŨÇì¸Ä¡õ.
±É§Å ¿¡õ ¬Â§ÅñÊÂÐ ¸¡Äõ ±ýÀ§¾ ¸¼É¡ ±ýÀ§¾.
«ó¾î ¦º¡ø ýÛõ ØÀȢ¢ø ¯ûÇÐ.
󧾡³§Ã¡ôÀ¢Âò¾¢ø «¾ü¸¡É §Å÷¸û ÕôÀ¾¡¸ ýÛõ ¿¢¨ÈÅ¡¸ ¿¢ÚÅô À¼Å¢ø¨Ä ¦ÂýÚõ «¾ý ÌÎõÀõ ýÛõ ¾£÷ì¸ôÀ¼Å¢ø¨Ä ±ýÚõ ±ÁìÌò ¦¾Ã¢ó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ÂÄ¡÷ ¦º¡ø¸¢È¡÷.
º¡Âí¸¡Äò¾¢ø º¡Âõ ±ýÀÐ ¦¾Ç¢Å¡¸ô (¦À¡ØÐ)º¡Ôõ¸¡Äõ ±ýÛõ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø º¡Ôõ ±ýÀ¾ý ¦¸¡î¨º.
ºí¸ò¾¢ø ±üÀ¡Î ±ýÚõ ¦º¡øÖÅ÷ º¡Ôí¸¡Äò¨¾.
±ø ÀÎõ §¿Ãõ = »¡Â¢Ú º¡Ôõ §¿Ãõ.
- From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ hybrid-024-221-181-057.ca.sprintbbd.net)
on: Sun Dec 17 05:58:23 EST 2000
Chandra,
A malayali friend of mine said they use ezhunjARu (ezhu njAyiRu) and padinjARu (padu njAyiru) for morning and evening. I think they are very poetic.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-123-208.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sun Dec 17 12:54:49 EST 2000
Á½¢:
¿ýÈ¢.
Á¨Ä¡Çò¾¡÷ ±ùÅÇ× «Æ¸¡¸ò ¾Á¢úÅÆí̸¢È¡÷¸û!
±Ø»¡Â¢Ú, Àλ¡Â¢Ú!
¸¡Äõ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡ø ¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢Âò¾¢ø ÀÃÅÄ¡¸ô À¢ø¸¢ÈÐ:
¦¸¡§Ä¡ý ¾Á¢Æ¢Ä츢Âì ¸¢¼í¸¢ø
http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/tamil/ttt_search.html
Qtolc255x05= \BT
vizaivE kAlam oziyicaik kiLavi en2Ru/
am mUn2Ru en2pa tillaic collE. \et
Qtolc113x29= \BT
vin2aiyE ceyvatu ceyappaTuporuLE/
nilan2E kAlam karuvi en2RA/
in2n2ataRku itu payan2 Aka en2n2um/
an2n2a marapin2 iraNToTum tokaii/
AyeTTu en2pa tozil mutan2ilaiyE. \et
Qtole165x22= \BT
uyirum puLLiyum iRuti Aki/
aLavum niRaiyum eNNum cuTTi/
uLa en2appaTTa ellAc collum/
tamtam kiLavi tam akappaTTa/
muttai varUum kAlam tOn2Rin2/
ottatu en2pa E en2 cAriyai. \et
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-13.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sat Dec 23 20:34:02 EST 2000
§ÁÖõ º¢Ä ¾Á¢ú¡ü¸û:
ºÂÉõ:
«Éó¾ ºÂÉõ, Àïº ºÂÉõ ±ýÀ¾ý ºÂÉõ
¾Á¢§Æ.
º¡ö = ¸¢¼
ºÂÉõ = ¸¢¼ò¾ø ±ýÛõ ¦¾¡Æ¢ü¦ÀÂ÷ ¸¢¼ì¨¸ìÌ ¯¾×õ
Àñ¼ò¾¢üÌõ ¬¸¢ÂÐ.
¸Õ/¸¡÷, ÀÍ/À¡Í ±ýÚ ¿¢¸úÅÐ ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ÂøÒ.
---
«ÎòÐô §Àƒ¡÷ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡ø!
«Ð ²§¾¡ À¡Ãº£¸õ «Ã¡À¢ìÌì ¸¼¦ÉýÚ ±ñϧšõ.
¬É¡ø «Ð §ÅºÃõ, §ÅºÃ×, §Åº¨¼ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡øÄ¢ø §¾¡ýÈ¢ÂÐ ±ýÚ DEDR (Dravidian Etymological Dictionary -Revised) ѨƦÅñ 5524-ø ÑÅÖõ!.
= sorrow, weariness, fatigue etc.
Á¨Ä¡Çõ: §Åº¡Õ
«î¦º¡ø ¸ýɼò¾¢§Ä§Â
Ka. §Àƒ¡Õ bEjAru
¦¸¡¼Ì:
Kod. ¦ÀƒÃ bejara
Å¢Âô§À!
- From: Hemant (@ 202.144.107.4)
on: Sun Dec 24 06:21:45 EST 2000
Word Mayura in Sanskrit for Peacock has been derived from Tamil word Mayil.Similarly word Neer for Water is a derived from Tamil word Taneer.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-13.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sun Dec 24 11:13:02 EST 2000
³Â¡ ¾ñ½£÷ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡øĢĢÕóÐ ¿£÷ ±ôÀÊ Å󾦾ýÚ Å¢Çì¸ÓÊÔÁ¡?
- From: ÃÅ¢ Íó¾Ãõ (@ pa-bethelpark2a-530.pit.adelphia.net)
on: Tue Dec 26 21:38:27 EST 2000
±ý º¢üÈÈ¢×ìÌ ±ðÊÂÁðÊø ¿£Ã¢Ä¢ÕóÐ Åó¾Ð ¾ñ½£÷.
¾ñ = ÌÙ¨Á, ¾ñ½£÷ ÌÇ¢÷ó¾ ¿£÷.
¦ÅýÉ£÷ = ÍÎÉ£÷.
¸Ø¿£÷ = ¸ØÅôÀð¼ («Íò¾Á¡É) ¾ñ½£÷.
¶¨Å¡÷ Áñ½£÷ = ¸Ø×õ ¾ñ½£÷ ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø ¯À§Â¡¸¢ò¾¢Õ츢ȡ÷.
¯ñ½£÷ = º¡ôÀ¢¼ò¾Ìó¾ ¿£÷.
(Á¼ø ¦ÀâР¾¡¨Æ Á¸¢Æ¢É¢Ð ¸ó¾õ
¯¼ø º¢È¢Â÷ ±ýÈ¢Õì¸ §Åñ¼¡ -- ¸¼ø ¦ÀâÐ.
Áñ½£ÕÁ¡¸¡Ð, «¾ÉÕ§¸ º¢üêÃø
¯ñ½£ÕÁ¡¸¢Å¢Îõ.)
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ hide-110.state.me.us)
on: Wed Dec 27 09:31:28 EST 2000
ÃÅ¢ Íó¾Ãõ:
¦º¡üÀ¢ÈôÀ¢ÂÄ¢ø ÈíÌõ ÓýÉ÷ ¾ñ½£÷ ±ýÀЧÀ¡Öõ ÜðÎ¡ü¸¨Ç ӾĢø ÀÌòÐ ¬Âò ¦¾Ã¢Â§ÅñÎõ.
À¢ÈÌ ¾É¢î¦º¡ü¸¨Ç ¬ÂôҸġõ. «ô§À¡Ð¾¡ý §Å÷¡ü¸¨Ç «È¢ÂÓÊÔõ.
Áñ½£÷ = ¸ØÅ ¯¾×õ ¿£÷ < ÁñϾø = ¸Ø×¾ø
¯Å÷Áñ н¢Ð¨Åì¸ô ÀÂýÀ𼦾ýÚ ¦º¡øÖÅ÷.
Åñ½¡ý < Áñ½¡ý ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÄôÀÎõ.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ hide-110.state.me.us)
on: Wed Dec 27 11:07:46 EST 2000
ÃÅ¢:
«ó¾ Ψ¸Â¢ý Ó¾øÅâ¸û ¯í¸ÙìÌî ¦º¡øÄô À¼Å¢ø¨Ä.
¦À¡ÐÅ¡¸î ¦º¡ýÉÐ; ¯í¸û ¦ÀÂÕìÌ §Áø ðÊÕ츧ÅñÎõ.
¾ÅÈ¡¸ ¯í¸Ù즸ýê §¾¡ýȢ¢ÕôÀ¢ý ÁýÉ¢ì¸.
¿£í¸û ºÃ¢Â¡¸ò¾¡ý ÀÌòÐî ¦º¡ýÉ£÷¸û.
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