Topic started by NaNbaN (@ 1cust201.tnt1.irving2.tx.da.uu.net) on Sat Apr 15 02:12:39 .
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Why are we *Translating* all the 'newly' coined English words in Tamil rather than assimilating those words into Tamil dictionary?
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Responses:
- From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust201.tnt1.irving2.tx.da.uu.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 02:17:03 EDT 2000
I guess we should be assimilating newly coined words into 'core' Tamil, making easy for people and business and Lyrcist too.
Some of the unpopular translated words.
Train - Pugaivandi ( ofcourse with no pugai now )
Computer - Kanipori
Television - Thoolaikatchipetti
TelePhone - Thoolaipaysee
Even in language like German and French they say Computer as computer and Train as Train. Why are we translating it?. We call British as 'Aangilayer' when the whole world call them English people.
A langauge like English seems to accept ethnic words as it is. Example--Karma, Guru, Pariah, Nirvana, kundalini.....
I guess it will great favour to students and business if we just assimilate foriegn words rather than translating it. I find this type translation unneccesary and that too when average person is pretty comfortable with original English word than the translated word.
Ironically, we have assimilated quite few English words like car, lorry, bus, AIDS etc.... Is it because, we cannot translate these words, and sound reasonable in Tamil?.
I guess the idea is, not to 'corrupt' Tamil with foreign words and maintain the 'purity'(?). If thatz the case the idea sounds stupid to me. How about you?.
What is the etymological reason for this practice?
Tamilan,
NaNbaN
Here is an excercise... How do you translate *Gold Flake Filter Kings*. :-)
- From: Siddhartha (@ dhcp-203-55.tulane.edu)
on: Sat Apr 15 03:02:16 EDT 2000
Dear,
I do not know why..
but for sure,
computer is not Kanipori, but kaNini
television is not Thoolaikatchipetti, but just Thoolaikatchipetti. (what you have said is television set).
TelePhone - Thoolaipaysee.. agreed.
However, these are NOT uncommon as you have claimed... at least of the majority of Tamil speaking people.
I am not sure, about German and French about 'assimilating' computer and Train as you have stated; But, I am sure, French would not like your idea.
Not long ago (may be four or five years back), French Cultural Ministry *Forced* French media and other French related publicationds, to use French equivalants rather than English (this might have been due to French's furious traditional anti-anglophonic stand).
car, lorry, bus and AIDS HAVE their equivalnts in Tamil.... thanks to the Tamil *mass media*... we have 'paNNith thamizh.'we need the tittles like, 'anu akka aunty'and 'Sun TV' and the newscasters and interviewers who even do not know how to speak Tamil (and I wonder how many of those clowns know there are three 'la', and three 'na' and two 'ra').
We have the people in the writing business who can not know how to write a single sentence without mixing an English language....
above all, we have a group of people who want to file case in the courts... only because the government wants to have Tamil as medium of language......
....whose fault is it not having seen Tamil used for the words, car, bus, AIDS and lorry... not the term coiners... but the governments that can not even have the guts to impose its own sponsered Tamil encoding scheme to its state media and publishers, and the people who still think English is the only saviour, and one and only language that could strong enough to keep the science survive.
Purity of the language is not the issue here, but the thinking of the people....
Assimilation is not a sin, but it should be done ONLY when there is no alternative.
Please enlighten me any equlivalant word in English (or westerner's mindset in the ancient time) that could be used in the place of Guru (do not tell me Teacher).... or any original English (or Latin/Greek rooted) words that give the ideas of russian 'Perstroyika' and 'Glasnot' (apologies for my spellings) in the real sense USSR expressed.
Definition of spices does not talk about what a food make of, at the same time spices may be needed.
Sorry if I have wandered/wondered here and there... not sticking to what you are talking of.
- From: Siddhartha (@ dhcp-203-55.tulane.edu)
on: Sat Apr 15 03:05:36 EDT 2000
hey,
by the way, what you are asking...
" Here is an excercise... How do you translate *Gold Flake Filter Kings*" tickles me asking this to you..
'How do you translate ambaaL appalaam' in English..;-))
Just inquisitic...
(and I am Siddhartha, and do not ask me to translate it into English)
- From: Vanchinathan (@ 203.197.139.87)
on: Sat Apr 15 04:00:07 EDT 2000
I agree, I have difficulty using "pugai vaNdi" while talking in Thamizh about train. But that is no justification to burden the whole population
with assimilating English words.
I think the "average person pretty comfortable with English" you talk about is in Madras.
A correction to your statement:
French word for computer is "L'ordinateur" (L' is the short form of French definite articles le/la used in front of nouns starting with a vowel)
----
In India we use Guru to mean a teacher or wiseman.
But now I see often statements such as
"She is a Java Guru" which I guess is intended to mean 'she is an expert in Java (the programming language). She might never have taught in any class room or tutored anyone personally in Java.
Of course when a person from Thamizhnadu uses the word "hotel" to mean a "restaurant" you know the reaction from a better-educated Madras citizen.
Why don't we take the same amount of concern for Indian languages and correct American misuse of 'guru'?
Also the 'ethnic' words you talk of (why can't you call them Samaskirutham words? Reminds me of the usage in The Hindu newspaper that talks of 'vernacular dailies' when it means Thamizh newspapers.) are not very popular.
Next time you call a white plumber to fix some leak just try complimenting him by saying "You are real guru with washbasins" and tell me his reaction.
And also do a survey of how many Indians in USA know of the 'English' word 'assegai'?
(Make sure he is not a crossword puzzle enthusiast)
----
Some words I found in the cover of the first German Language book used by friend going to Max Mueller Bhavan:
Allemagne
Tedesco
Deutsch
I was told that these are words in French, Italian and German (in that order) that refer to the language spoken in Germany.
So your objection to "angileyar" is not justified.
- From: vettiyAn (@ dhcp22-25.riken.go.jp)
on: Sat Apr 15 04:08:41 EDT 2000
We call the english as angkilEyar, so what,
In hindi they are called angrESis, in Japanese they are called eigonohito, english is known in japan as eigo and not english, german is known as deut-tch - and not deutsch, russia is known in hindi as rUSS and chinese as Chini.
Tamiz is written in english as tamil and not tamiz
When you say radio my feeble intellect does not understand what goes behind it, but I understand almost instantaneously that it is sky bound waves when my teacher used vAnoli. I never understood the principle of superhetrodyne receiver correctly, until one fine day, I read its tamil equivalent "kalakkip piriththal" - the whole concept is understood just in its terminology. such is the power of teaching in mother tongue.
We need coinages to promote scientific temperament among folks.
we could simply write ImailU in tamil but when we say minnanjal, what goes behind is understood - clearly.
When all else fail, we assimilate, without shame or sin
- From: Vanchinathan (@ 203.197.139.87)
on: Sat Apr 15 04:09:24 EDT 2000
Sorry, I did not notice the postings by Siddhartha. My posting above is addressed to 'naNpan"
- From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust177.tnt1.irving2.tx.da.uu.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 04:47:16 EDT 2000
>>So your objection to "angileyar" is not justified<<
May be you are right.... I am just throwing all my question in air. Let wait and see more posts.
NaNbaN
- From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ pc-242-61.corp.3com.com)
on: Sat Apr 15 11:19:23 EDT 2000
Hmm. What does this have to do with Tamil literature?
- From: Sendhuran (@ itpc1.ntu.edu.sg)
on: Sat Apr 15 11:33:18 EDT 2000
Hi there,
Have you ever heard of something called "radio". it comes about because the trasmission is through radio signals. however you can listen to "net radio" nowadays while you are logged on. These "net radio" channels do not use radio waves at all to transmit, they use the internet. yet the are called net radios because they do the same function as radios did before, however they are on the net, so they are "net radios".
The same applies here for train. back then a train was pugai vandi. now it is electric, so it is minsara pugai vandi. it is just that people don't want to say minsara because it is understand and the difference does not matter to them.
The reason that you can not just add an english word to the thamilzh lexicon is because they don't follow thamilzh rules. and when you change the words to fit thamilzh rules, then a lot of confusion is created. for example how will you write train in thamilzh. you would have to write drain (dirain actually).
another example. if want bomb in thamilzh, it would become paampu which also happens to be snake. so how would you know what a guy is talking about??
It is best to create new words in thamilzh.
Sendhuran
- From: kumar (@ )
on: Mon Sep 20 06:48:34
MODERN TAMIL WORDS DICTIONARY
http://www.thozhilnutpam.com/chollagaraathi1.htm
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